Lets have some feed back about our trials. Specifically the Bures trial in this instance.

How was it for you? Too hard? Too easy? Should we always stop for lunch?
Do you want to see any changes? How can we make any improvements?
Fewer sections set and re-driven?

It's over to YOU. It's your club so let us know what you like or dislike.
Post on this forum or if you want to discuss something in private contact a committee member.

PS The late start was due to new scruitineers having to check the vehicles in the later part of the sign in/scruitineering period.

Kevin
Clerk of Course

Just a few notes to add to Kevin's plea for comments about the trial

- The late start: 'Tis true that the scrutineers had to check the vehicles. We always ask for people to get to the venue early to get signed on. By 9.15, we only had about 4 people signed on... We also had one vehicle that caused more than a little debate for various reasons that resulted in it being sent home.

- Setting out - we didn't have a lot of help on the day... More would like to make life a lot easier.

Still, would like to hear your views (good or bad) so we can see if we can change things.

Karl.
Also a CoC - for the CCV bit.

yeah I will hold my hand up to not helping to set out(but I've not been well) but as for marshalling on the day of the comp,dont you think that having all classes on the same day potentially uses up all the available resources?It was suggested in an earlier posting that those whose class was not competing on any one day should help out in the organisational side of the event,but with all classes on at the same time who is left ?Also what about the ruling that those who set out cannot drive in the competion? I certainly do not have the experience to set out anything but a Tyro so what do I do if I want to drive? well you did ask for our views! Fred Greaves

yeah I will hold my hand up to not helping to set out(but I've not been well) but as for marshalling on the day of the comp,dont you think that having all classes on the same day potentially uses up all the available resources?It was suggested in an earlier posting that those whose class was not competing on any one day should help out in the organisational side of the event,but with all classes on at the same time who is left ?Also what about the ruling that those who set out cannot drive in the competion? I certainly do not have the experience to set out anything but a Tyro so what do I do if I want to drive? well you did ask for our views! Fred Greaves

Anyone not sure about setting out need not worry. I had to start somewhere and there is always someone to show you what to do for each section.

A lot comes from experience but it's NOT as difficult to set out as you might think.
You will be paired off with someone with experience until you feel you want to set out your own section, and that can be checked before the event.
The hard part is having a thick skin and broad shoulders to shrug off those moaning comments! Constructive criticism IS welcome.

It can be awkward to set sections for various levels of drivers expectations, one of the reasons I was asking for comments about the last, and future, trials.

As long as you don't drive you can help set out. Sometimes we just need the bodies to plant canes at the relevant places, so you can still drive the sections in the trial.

I reckon that we will always struggle for marshals whatever we try to do.

We will never please everybody but we aim to please as many as possible.
Let us know if we are getting it right!!

Please don't think I was criticisng the day at Bures. Mega Margaret and I had a great day,probably one of the smoothest run events we have been at.The comments above should perhaps have been in answer to Karl's question,in another section.Fred G

Thanks for the comments guys - let's have some more please.

Picking up on Fred's comment about setting out and driving, and also Kevin's response. The formal position (according to the rules we have our permit to run events under) says that the Clerk of the Course (CoC) cannot also enter an event. There is also the school of thought that says the CoC should be busy on the day making sure everything is safe to run, that everything is in place and that all competitors are driving properly - a right busy chap!

Those that help set out get to see how the course has been set, so have something of an advantage on the day of the trial. If they also drive the sections when setting out they will have a significant advantage over the rest of the competitors. In the club we have a relatively relaxed approach to this situation and take each occurence on it's own merits and act accordingly (such as letting the driver drive, but not be able to take official scores)

On another point about running the three classes together - it was done this way because we could only have Bures for the one day, and most people like driving at Bures so we didn't want to exclude any one group. But, the point has been noted.

I have also had some verbal feedback, that can be summarised as some CCV drivers found the course too hard (the complainants included novices, so arguably should not have been in the CCV, but that was all they had access to and we only knew they were coming the night before) and that the course hadn't been driven (there is nothing in the rules that say a course must be driven, and I didn't have a vehicle to hand to pre-drive the sections).

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming. It's good to know what people think becuase then we can make changes if we need to.

Karl.

I know you were not critiscizing Fred, no offence taken, I know you had a good day. We need all kinds of comments from all the events so keep em' coming

''Mega Margaret and I had a great day,probably one of the smoothest run events we have been at''

Hearing that makes it all worthwhile. We know we must be getting it pretty well right.

I enjoyed the trial at Bures, not least 'coz it's only 8 miles from home! I know I bent the RR's front corner again, but I still had a good day. It'a shame I was the only LWB, but at least I had to come first in my class!

I often marshal, and I enjoy it, but it's good to compete sometimes, if only to remind yourself that you do need the practice!

I liked Barry's idea of one group/class marshalling for another - the only problem I can see is that it stops everybody being lined up, ready to go, so it would slow proceedings down a bit. Even so, it might be worth a try.

Cheers,
JohnB.

I too like Barry's idea of the other classes marshalling, though I'm not sure how well it will work in practise. As long as the first group don't rush off when they have finished their trial and leave everybody else to it.
I might be wrong but the CCV seemed to finish their trial and dashed off to load up and left others to collect all the canes in!
I know some other sports pay their marshals a token payment (£15). At least that helps to get wet, tired and cold for.
Is it really feasable in ELRC due to costs and the logistics of marshal/competitor ratio and who gets paid for marshalling? The die hards who are always there at cost to themselves? New marshals? The guys setting out the day before? Nominated regular marshals?
I am quite open to the idea of paid marshals but would it change the atmosphere of the club and would drivers pay an extra £2 - £3 to cover the cost?
I think it would help maintain the excellent safety record of the club and it may come to where we have to have nominated/named marshals in the future.
Maybe it's something we could be looking at before it becomes enforced on us in this health & safety, risk assesment, compensation culture.

Paying marshals has been investigated at a national level at circuit types of motorsports and most people (marshals, organisers, competitors etc) agreed that it was not the way to go.

I don't think it is right for ELRC to head this way either. For a start, what is a reasonable amount? My time at Bures was probably about 10 hours, plus there is the stuff done before and after, not counting travelling costs of (say) 120 miles total at (say) 10p a mile - that, at a very nominal rate of £10/hour comes to over £100. That amount to cover 6 marshals makes the event very expensive - for that fee I could afford to go rallying...

Alternatively, pay a gratuity to cover fuel (V8 or diesel rates?) but will it ever be enough?

A nominal £10 is not an incentive to most people to get out of bed.

Let's not forget that we do this for fun.

On a more legal aspect, we are a limited company. If we start paying people to do jobs it could land us in all kinds of employment types of issues that I don't even want to start thinking about.

I really don't think course of debate should go any further!

I think most of the other suggestions so have some merit that is worth investigating.

Keep the suggestions coming!

Karl.

Mmmm. On consideration, paying marshals would open a can of worms!!

I suppose it's a natural progression of new members coming into the club, some of whom would be willing to volunteer for marshals and setting out etc.
It is the 21st anniversary year and someone has always set out/marshalled for the last 21 years so I guess the old adage of ''if it ain't broke, don't fix it'' applies.

Any more comments on the ease/difficulty of the RTV and TYRO and wether it's good to set fewer sections and let drivers choose which sections they want to drive again. Some drivers scored MORE points on the second drive of a section than the first. No names mentioned. It would make setting out easier but is that what the drivers want?
I think drivers should have their own sections, not shared, whenever possible depending on site, marshals (AGAIN) etc.

More more more.

We only need a little help from lots more guys to make the job easier. I don't want anyone to have to give up a drive because they are setting out or marshalling. It would be good to have a CCV on site when setting out CCV sections and if you can help with that Barry that would be great.

I like the idea of the start marshal moving onto the next section with the drivers while other marshals and helpers collect the canes, if I know that section will not be driven again that day. I think we leave the canes in so we can go back to sections to re-drive them if we have time, or need a run off to decide a winner. Maybe we can just leave 1 or 2 sections in the ground.

Learning all the time and getting some good feedback.

Some good points there Jim.
If I am setting out I will try to post something asking for volunteers on here as soon as I know whats happening.
Glad you liked the sections set.
I think the homestead trophy table in the mag is a good idea. Will bring it up at the next committee meeting.

Kev

The Homestead results used to be in every issue (going back a few years) but our editors have commented that it takes up a lot of space and is an absolute bar-steward to insert and keep looking right.

We could alter the format and post running total's rather than the whole results table.

Karl.